No doubt in our culture we want to front the best image possible; it’s no different in the church. So we end up hiding parts of our true self. But the emotional and spiritual cost of hiding is astronomical. No one gets to know us for who we are. Always posing. Keeping up the illusion. Inside we are screaming that there has to be a better way. We need a safe place so that when people see us for who we truly are we know they won’t run away. Instead they stay, listen, love and extend grace.
Who is Seth McBee?
Seth McBee is the adopted son of God, husband of one wife and father of three. He’s a graduate of Seattle Pacific University with a finance degree. By trade Seth is an Investment Portfolio Manager, serving as president of McBee Advisors, Inc. Today, he’s a preaching elder with Soma Communities in Renton, WA and part of the Executive Team with the GCM Collective. In his down time he likes to CrossFit, cook BBQ, host pancake ebelskiver breakfasts at his home and many other neighborhood events in his hometown of Maple Valley, Washington
Question: What do you do (the strategy) to make sure that people in your church are being discipled do that they can go and disciple others?
My strategy to ensure people are making disciples is pretty simple. We trust in the work of the Spirit as we live out the implications of the gospel in community as a family of missionary servants. I am not sure any other way to “make sure” people are being discipled. You can do trainings, classroom discussions and studies, etc. but that isn’t ensuring anything is actually happening. You must get the people in community, living out the implications of the good news with the power of the Spirit for this to happen. We see this is exactly how Jesus did it as well. We can see him discipling his disciples on the mission field with the broken 80% of the time and the other 20% of the time was just with the disciples. The interesting thing is that by doing this we get to see the real responses of the discipleship process, meaning, we even as readers 2000 years later, get to see where the disciples need the gospel. We see Peter saying some pretty stupid things and the apostles failing to heal (Matt 17) and asking Jesus for explanation, (with many other examples) all these happening as real responses from being on the mission field. So, by living out discipleship on the mission field, you will see where you, your missional community and those that are not yet believers actually need the good news of Jesus in their life. When you are having a BBQ and a neighbor’s kid spills his fruit juice on your carpet and you yell at him and get angry at the cost of carpet cleaning, it reveals you need to understand who’s carpet it actually is and why you have your home. You need the good news applied to both your anger and your possessions. If you have the BBQ with your MC, and you see them as family, they can point these gospel needs to you with confidence you desire correction to make you more like Jesus and under his Lordship in every area of your life.
Not only this, but we encourage everyone to live as normal people with normal lives, but understanding they have an abnormal calling. Everything we do needs to be transferable to each one of our people instead of discipleship only being able to be done by a select few. If your discipleship can’t be transferred over to a single mom, a CEO or college student…you are probably not doing what Jesus was doing. He lived in such a way that was transferable to a wide range of people. Fisherman, tax collectors, zealots and even crazier…women. (crazy for that day…don’t get mad at me).
The last thing I’ll say about this is to realize that the second people meet someone, they are discipling them to who Jesus is. Everything you say and do people perceive is what a follower of Jesus does. When your people see this difference, it opens their eyes to understanding discipleship and how much they are discipling in the every day. Much more to say on this topic, but we don’t want to belabor that here.
Quick summation: Holy Spirit empowered, Gospel saturated, in community, on the mission field, transferable, in the every day.
Question: Do you make disciples in a group (Life Group or Missional Community) or do you do it one on one? Or is it a combination of the two? Please explain.
Both, but mostly, like 90%, in community. There are times to meet up one on one, I get that. But that cannot be the totality of our discipleship. There is a reason that God told Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply, God calling out Abram to start a new nation, God calling the people of God the church, a family, a body, a flock. Because the point of all these are to point people to who God is and what he is like. God is Trinitarian, therefore, by living and discipling in community, we show off who God is and the fact that he lives in community as Father, Son and Spirit. If I merely disciple someone one on one, that person will start to look like me, instead of Jesus. I can call them my disciple, instead of them being Jesus’ disciple. It would be like going to the gym and merely working out your right bicep. Sure, that bicep will be huge, but it will not help your whole body’s development.
Again, this doesn’t mean you negate one on one, but you must see the fallacy of that being the way to make a fully formed disciple of Jesus. Even Jesus rarely met with the disciples one on one…what makes us think we should spend most of our disciple time doing that? Unless one thinks they are greater than Jesus.
Question: How often should Life Group or Missional Community Leaders meet for training? What curriculum do you use?
How often? Not sure. This will be different for every community. We need to be careful from trying to set this up for all people for all time. Some questions to ask to determine for one’s community would definitely be these:
- Where do we see our people needing to be trained in?
- How long do our people need to live out the training before we start a new topic to train them in?
- Can we gather for training that will not interrupt their normal discipleship lives in an unhealthy way? If yes, the question then comes, how often should this be to make sure it is not a burden?
- Can we use our other gathering times for training? MC meetings, Sunday gatherings, etc.
We use many of the resources found on the GCM Collective. I am about to embark on this with my MC as I am moving and expecting three MCs being born as I leave. I will be going through these first: Empowered by the Spirit; Gospel Fluency; How to Create an Environment for Discipleship; The Power and Purpose of the Gospel.
Question: What should we do if there is a lack of Life Group or Missional Community apprentices? Steps to take?
They are there. Usually people just have too high of expectations for apprentices. Too high being the apostle Paul would struggle to pass your test. I think the very first step is to ask the Spirit to reveal them to you. Remember it is the Spirit’s mission and the Spirit’s power, so he’ll provide the workers. We must rely on him and him alone for leaders to be not only born, but empowered. Once he shows who this is, and he will, take extra time with them. Make sure you are continually living life on life with them and tell them what you see in them. Tell them you believe they’ll be leading some day and you believe in them because you believe in the power of the Spirit. If we think every one of our kids are going to be “good enough” to one day lead their own families, we should look at our MC family the same. Every one of them could lead, doesn’t mean all of them will. But, just as you treat each of your children differently because of age, maturity,etc. do the same with those in your MC. Some will be ready for leadership more quickly, so spend more time with them now readying them to multiply, and when they do, look for the next batch by asking the Spirit again.
This all goes back to the first question though. You have to make sure that you are discipling in ways that are empowered by the Spirit, transferable and in the every day. If you do this, more people will believe it’s easy to lead an MC. I am about to leave for Arizona and my MC is freaked out some, but they know that they can do everything that I’ve done, because everything I’ve done is pointing them to the Spirit’s power, easily transferable and very much in the every day. They’ll miss me because we are family and I have some distinctive gifts, but they won’t miss me because they don’t think they could do the exact same thing with me gone.
Question: What are a few books that you have read lately that have had a big impact on you?
I always get rocked by seeing the life of Jesus and how he lived with the power of the Spirit, in relationship with his Father and discipling in such simple ways. I have been reading the Bible and focusing on the life of Jesus looking for these things. Powerful.
Other books that have been killing me, in a good way, are Creating a Missional Culture by JR Woodward and also The Permanent Revolution by Alan Hirsch and Tim Catchim. Both focus on Ephesians 4 with the giftings given to the church: Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Shepherds and Teachers. Both these books are revolutionizing my thoughts on the church and I believe is the tip of the iceberg for the church at large.
Question: Is Caesar Kalinowski coming out with a book? If so, tell us why we should be excited about reading it.
The reason you should read it is because Caesar does a great job of showing everything I/we believe about discipleship in the everyday empowered by the Spirit. Love that guy…he means a ton to me. Great friend and even better brother.
The book will be coming out next year, stay tuned!
If you want to learn more about Missional Community life go to GCM Collective. There is a GCM movement underway in South Jersey; if you are interested you can contact me (Michael Wallenmeyer).
The Critical Question
One of the most important questions facing the church today is this; is every believer called by Jesus Christ to make disciples who make disciples?
The Biblical Answer
If there is one passage of Scripture that Christians are familiar with it is the Great Commission found in Matthew 28:16-20.
Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed them. And when they saw him they worshiped him, but some doubted. And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”
Just because we are familiar with a particular passage of Scripture does not mean that we fully understand it or obey it.
The phrase “make disciples” is in the imperative which means that Jesus is highlighting the importance of it. The short and sweet of it is this; every Christian is commanded by Jesus Christ to go and make disciples who make disciples. In fact, making disciples is a primary characteristic of someone who claims to know Christ.
“Why is it that we see so little disciple making taking place in the church today? Do we really believe that Jesus told His early followers to make disciples but wants the twenty-first-century church to do something different? None of us would claim to believe this, but somehow we have created a church culture where the paid ministers do the “ministry,” and the rest of us show up, put some money in the plate, and leave feeling inspired or “fed.” We have moved so far away from Jesus’s command that many Christians don’t have a frame of reference for what disciple making looks like.” –Francis Chan, “Multiply: Disciples Making Disciples”
1-Christian leaders have not been discipled
In my 43 years of being in the church I have experienced the love and encouragement of many people, yet I have never had someone disciple me like we see Jesus doing with his followers. From the conversations I have had with many people I know that I am not alone.
2-Churches are not looking for pastors who make disciples
Churches are overly focused on the show, the performance on Sunday morning. I’ve seen quite a few job descriptions for pastors in my time. I can’t honestly ever remember seeing “we are looking for a Lead Pastor who makes disciples” at the top of the list. Think about that for a moment. Frightening. Why is it that the very thing Jesus commanded each one of us to do so that the gospel would spread throughout the world we fail to make a priority for our leaders?
3-We assumed that the “church” was responsible for making disciples and failed to own the responsibility ourselves
I think there are many people who would agree with the idea that Jesus commanded us to make disciples but they believe it is the “church’s” job and don’t understand that they personally bear the burden and the joy of discipleship themselves.
4-We mistakenly thought we could make disciples through programs and worship services
Many church leaders have been trained to put together worship services and programs. Sunday morning is important and there is a place for programs, but the truth of the matter is that disciples are made in messy, gospel centered relationships. We have attempted to make disciples like Ford makes automobiles; impersonal assembly lines and mass production. Jesus modeled a very different way to create disciples.
5-We have substituted discipleship for accountability partners
There is nothing wrong with having an accountability partner; the issue is that we are not reproducing disciples. Let’s not throw out the idea of accountability, instead let’s add to it the disciple making component.
6-We don’t feel spiritually mature enough to make disciples
One obstacle is that we do not feel qualified to disciple another person. Perhaps we are painfully aware of our own sinfulness or we have not been a Christian for very long. The truth is that we will probably never feel ready. Chances are good that the Holy Spirit is not going to lead you to disciple someone who is more spiritually mature than you are. But what about your colleague at work? The neighbor at your child’s bus stop? There are opportunities all around us if we will open up our spiritual eyes.
Do you see yourself in one of the above six reasons? What other reasons can you think of for why we are not making disciples?
What Does A Church That Makes Disciples Look Like?
What would happen if a church took discipleship seriously? Imagine being done once and for all with the clergy/laity divide which has led some of us to conclude that the “professionals” are the ones responsible for discipleship. Imagine followers of Jesus who take full responsibility for the discipleship of people in and outside the church. Consider the depth of relationships and community that would exist because there is not an unhealthy dependence on programs and worship services to generate discipleship. Imagine a church where each person is reorganizing the priorities of their life with the purpose of investing in others? Imagine the people in our neighborhoods, schools, workplaces that are being loved and led to Christ by ordinary disciples like you and me. Imagine the gospel spreading and people in our city becoming worshippers of Jesus Christ because of our relational investment. This is a glimpse of what would happen to a church that takes discipleship seriously.
The Way Forward
What are some first steps we can take when it comes to making disciples of Jesus Christ? How do we get started? First of all you must realize that the command to make disciples is not a spiritual gift for a few select Christians, it is a command for every Christian. Second, you must be willing to reorganize your life around disciple making relationships. If you are waiting for a time in your life when you are less busy you will find, unfortunately, life does not slow down on its own. We have to make space for things that are important. Third, pray about it. Ask God who he has placed in your life for you to love and invest in. Fourth, make sure you are very intentional about the fact that the end result of your time together is that each of you will go and make other disciples.
The following is a quote from “Leading With A Limp” by Dan Allender
The difference between a manager and a leader is the internal urge to alter the status quo to create a different world. In that sense leaders are prophets. They see the present as incomplete and inadequate and are willing to risk the comfort of the present for the promise of a better tomorrow. A manager, on the other hand, is content to keep the organization running as smoothly and efficiently as it can function. A manager serves to keep the plane in the air, whereas a leader wants to put a new engine on the plane midair.
A manager wants to approach the inevitable chaos with the tried and true methods that have worked in the past. In contrast, a leader knows that as difficult as it is to bring about change, not to do so will destroy the community. There can be no freedom from the bondage of the daily rut without the chaos that comes from leading people out of the status quo.
A leader who desires nothing more than the status quo becomes an ostrich with its head in the sand. A leader must be troubled and discontent, and he must ask the question, How can tomorrow be better than today? He must be a visionary, living in the tension between how to honor what is good and true today and yet be discontent with today in light of what could transpire tomorrow. He is torn between what is and what could be, yet he speaks the future into the present due due to his compelling desire for change. P. 58